Transcript
[0:05] You can scratch this culture [music] and
[0:08] you will find
[0:10] that the culture is reaching
[0:13] for their connection to [music] the
[0:16] beloved.
[0:18] Every church is full.
[0:21] [music] People call me and say, "What do
[0:25] you think of
[0:27] September 11th?
[0:30] What do you feel about? I say, well, why
[0:32] don't you go to the tiptop tip of your
[0:37] insides [music] and then you can have
[0:41] the answer because that's where I'm
[0:43] going.
[0:45] The trauma pushed me up into.
[0:51] All I ask of everybody
[0:56] is that they go [music] inside
[1:01] to find the answer.
[1:08] Welcome to Ramdas here and now. This is
[1:12] episode 312,
[1:14] Soul Perception. This talk was recorded
[1:18] in Yonkers, New York on September 29th,
[1:22] 2001.
[1:23] So just a few weeks after the attacks of
[1:26] September 11th. So before we begin, just
[1:30] a note, this recording includes
[1:33] discussion from 9/11 and some raw
[1:36] responses from people who were living
[1:38] through its immediate aftermath. We're
[1:42] sharing it not to reopen old wounds but
[1:46] because the questions Ramdas was willing
[1:49] to sit with in that moment and some of
[1:52] them are really difficult questions.
[1:55] What happens to our spiritual
[1:56] understanding when something comes along
[1:58] that we cannot explain fix or fit neatly
[2:03] into our ideas about how life is
[2:07] supposed to work. Ramdas knew something
[2:09] about that by this point. In his own
[2:11] life, he'd been radically changed by a
[2:14] stroke five years earlier. And in this
[2:18] talk, you can hear him wrestling with
[2:19] it. He's still, you know, challenged by
[2:22] words affected by the aphasia. Uh it's
[2:26] not this like distant philosophical
[2:28] perch, but he's inside this body that is
[2:31] in pain and doesn't work and a life that
[2:35] was nothing like he expected it to go.
[2:38] So, it's really intimate to listen to
[2:40] him here. And he doesn't resolve the
[2:42] contradictions for us. He asks us to
[2:46] look more deeply at who we think we are
[2:50] and what we trust when the ground is
[2:52] moving beneath us and whether there
[2:55] might be another way to see things. But
[2:57] for now, here is Rondos here and now.
[3:02] [music]
[3:07] >> [music]
[3:09] >> This is Ramdas
[3:12] and the show is called Here and Now
[3:14] [music] with Ramdas.
[3:21] >> [music]
[3:22] >> I had a stroke about um
[3:27] five years ago and um
[3:31] [snorts] I feel stroked
[3:35] and the stroke was traumatic
[3:40] for me.
[3:42] It affect my body
[3:47] spasticity and and pain.
[3:53] And then there were other
[3:56] things. I was used to being um
[4:00] independent
[4:01] and now I was dependent.
[4:05] Paul Gorman and I wrote a book, How can
[4:08] I help?
[4:10] And now I'd write the book, How Can You
[4:13] Help Me?
[4:20] And I suffered
[4:22] I suffered
[4:25] spiritually
[4:28] because
[4:30] I followed the sadna
[4:33] of guru kria
[4:36] the guru's grace
[4:39] and I felt myself having my guru nim
[4:43] karobi baba I felt graceful
[4:49] ever Since I known known him, my my life
[4:54] graced.
[4:57] So the stroke
[5:00] was spiritually
[5:03] disappointing because
[5:06] if I was under his grace
[5:10] this stroke
[5:15] and I spent the first month or so
[5:19] in the hospital
[5:23] Maharaj's grace
[5:27] The stroke.
[5:30] Grace. Stroke.
[5:35] Grace.
[5:37] But the stroke. What's it doing here?
[5:42] It's grace.
[5:45] I was having a good time showing
[5:50] how the the stroke was graceful.
[5:56] These two were trying to get together
[6:00] because I wasn't wasn't using other
[6:04] people's minds because they were all,
[6:07] "Oh, you poor person.
[6:10] You stroked."
[6:16] And I'd get this poor me
[6:26] And then
[6:28] the whole business became
[6:31] so too much
[6:33] between the physical and the
[6:35] psychological and the spiritual. Ah
[6:41] it forced me to go from
[6:46] my ego to my soul.
[6:51] I I forced my perception.
[6:55] I was looking from ego perception which
[6:59] oh this is a drag. What ooh this pain ah
[7:03] my body
[7:08] soul perception is is sort of um
[7:12] [clears throat] watching it all happen.
[7:14] So I began to be a watcher. I watched
[7:19] him who had the stroke. I was watching
[7:23] the stroke melodrama
[7:27] and I noticed that the stroke had pushed
[7:29] me my consciousness
[7:33] to the witness.
[7:36] That's pretty graceful.
[7:41] There were um graceful things about the
[7:43] stroke. I mean before I had the stroke I
[7:47] had to you know I'd have little bits of
[7:50] grace all you must have them you know uh
[7:54] a parking space you say come on Maharaji
[7:59] come on you can give me that one parking
[8:01] space and and sometimes it works and but
[8:07] pretty good it's pretty good and then
[8:10] this stroke is it graceful I mean Look
[8:18] [applause]
[8:32] and I started to bring the two things
[8:34] together. [clears throat]
[8:37] This stroke I called tough grace.
[8:45] And the therapists they came to me they
[8:48] were souls and I was a soul and we
[8:54] interacted with we with others with
[8:58] other they did their therapy but we were
[9:02] souls together
[9:08] because what the stroke forced me into
[9:11] was seeing myself as a soul
[9:15] and it takes one to know one.
[9:19] So I look at you and I see all souls.
[9:25] Souls in an incarnation and most of you
[9:30] you souls are like I have been many
[9:33] times identified with the incarnations.
[9:40] See, I um you all probably know that I
[9:45] I've taken many paths. [snorts] What I
[9:48] didn't learn from one, I learned from
[9:51] another.
[9:53] Always I kept learning.
[9:56] And then then I followed Buddha and then
[10:01] I followed Hindu thing. But now I'm
[10:08] making up my own model.
[10:16] I've called it from perennial philosophy
[10:19] and Buddhism. And
[10:23] it sounds like this.
[10:26] We are three plained beings. Three plain
[10:32] beings.
[10:34] First plane is ego.
[10:37] The second plane is soul.
[10:41] The third plane is the third plane.
[10:48] That'll save enough arguments.
[10:59] Now what's interesting is
[11:02] the ego tends to die at the end of the
[11:06] incarnation
[11:07] and take with it all its personality.
[11:11] The soul goes on
[11:16] and it sees death as merely the end of
[11:19] the chapter.
[11:21] After enough chapters,
[11:25] when it has learned the lessons of love
[11:30] and suffering,
[11:32] then it comes to the end of the cycle
[11:36] and we disappear into the beloved.
[11:43] Souls have karma from past lives and
[11:48] from this life.
[11:50] and you find a a a an incarnation,
[11:55] it fits you. It fits you. And what it
[11:58] doesn't fit, you make it. It's it's a
[12:02] creative matter. Your soul creates your
[12:09] your incarnation.
[12:11] Now, I am a motivational psychologist.
[12:18] The ego has hundreds of motives,
[12:21] hundreds of things it pulls to and pulls
[12:25] away from. But the soul has only one
[12:30] motive and that is to meld with the
[12:33] beloved with the one.
[12:38] my body is this way and my personality
[12:43] is this way and I can identify with
[12:47] those things or I can pull back to the
[12:51] soul and see what this has to do with my
[12:57] motive of getting to the beloved.
[13:00] Krishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad
[13:04] Gita, do what you do in life [snorts]
[13:08] but dedicated to me God.
[13:13] In other words, live a dharmic life.
[13:17] In other words, live on two levels at
[13:20] once.
[13:24] You're living as souls in this setting,
[13:30] this incarnation.
[13:32] Now when you identify with the
[13:35] incarnation,
[13:37] you get frightened of death.
[13:45] So I am a ego and I get scared
[13:53] and then I'm a soul and I say isn't that
[13:58] interesting.
[14:01] The soul just experiences
[14:04] the
[14:05] incarnation by witnessing it. Now this
[14:10] is all mind garbage.
[14:15] I am giving you one of my mind moments.
[14:21] If you can use it fine but you can
[14:26] forget it.
[14:29] [laughter]
[14:30] I mean, everybody can make these up
[14:33] these. The mind
[14:38] because the mind is
[14:42] the mind down in the ego stuff.
[14:46] Where did that come from? That came from
[14:49] the soul created that.
[14:53] Where did the soul come from? The
[14:56] creator. The creator uses my mind for
[15:00] its creation.
[15:05] Your awareness is part of number three.
[15:09] When you say I
[15:13] the awareness
[15:16] and that that number three has a very
[15:19] mystical part because your number three
[15:22] and my number three
[15:25] and one are all the same not part of
[15:32] there is
[15:34] one.
[15:38] Number three is also called the atman
[15:43] in Hinduism
[15:46] is it's called the still small voice of
[15:49] God in the Quakers.
[15:59] See, I've been thinking
[16:01] whether my little storyline for one
[16:05] person, [clears throat] my trauma
[16:08] started to me to wake up to other realms
[16:13] of consciousness.
[16:15] Do you suppose that our culture can do
[16:20] it?
[16:21] I mean I can see that the culture
[16:25] at September 11th got its stroke
[16:30] and then
[16:36] stroke
[16:38] grace
[16:41] grace
[16:43] a castinated teacher kept death over the
[16:48] left shoulder
[16:50] boy death.
[16:53] You can scratch this culture and you
[16:56] will find
[16:58] that the culture is reaching for their
[17:03] connection to the beloved.
[17:08] Every church is full.
[17:12] People call me and say, "What do you
[17:16] [snorts] think of
[17:18] September 11th?
[17:21] What do you feel about?" I say, "Well,
[17:24] why don't you go to the tiptop tip of
[17:28] your insides and then you can have the
[17:33] answer because that's where I'm going."
[17:37] the trauma pushed me up into.
[17:46] All I ask of everybody
[17:51] is that they go inside
[17:56] to find the answer.
[18:01] >> [snorts]
[18:03] >> I know I've been um I've been rascally a
[18:08] little bit but
[18:11] like I have I've studied Shiva. Shiva
[18:14] who is God.
[18:17] Could you imagine Shiva piloting a
[18:21] plane?
[18:30] Something will happen
[18:33] where
[18:35] the souls will remember.
[18:39] They will remember.
[18:48] We are
[18:51] becoming
[18:52] human.
[18:55] Human.
[18:57] the way we are concerned about our
[19:00] families.
[19:01] We are living [clears throat] in
[19:03] community.
[19:06] But let's not forget human is one two
[19:13] three. I I I
[19:18] you see I used to sit a bedside for
[19:22] dying people.
[19:27] >> [snorts]
[19:28] >> And the person would be lying in bed
[19:34] and I would be Mr. Death. I mean Mr. You
[19:39] know Ramdas will come and he'll make all
[19:42] right. So
[19:44] I got nothing else to do.
[19:48] And I I feature sitting by dying people
[19:53] because that's the best way you get. Hi,
[20:01] they got nothing to lose.
[20:04] So it's not like egos.
[20:08] I took care of my father and he was such
[20:12] a beautiful soul
[20:15] and for all those years
[20:18] I never once noticed
[20:21] his ego was
[20:25] and mine was
[20:27] and we father and son
[20:33] I used to come to people's bedrooms so
[20:37] I'd be outside and I I say here I go Mr.
[20:41] death and I'm going, you know, how
[20:45] become the role. I become the role.
[20:48] Black bag and a somber look and
[20:54] hello. Yes.
[20:56] Nothing to be worried. No.
[21:03] And even at that time they felt better
[21:08] because of my visit.
[21:12] But then I get to the point where
[21:16] outside the room [clears throat]
[21:18] I would say, "Who am I?
[21:23] Who am I? I'm a soul."
[21:33] And I'd open the door and there on the
[21:35] bed would be a fellow soul.
[21:41] I used to go in and say there is a
[21:45] cancer patient or there is an AIDS
[21:47] patient and I am visiting the Morabund.
[21:53] We were our roles. We were our roles
[21:58] like you're my mother, you're my my
[22:02] lover. But these are all love roles.
[22:06] But I forgot the roles.
[22:10] There was a soul and here's a soul. A
[22:14] soul friend.
[22:17] Then you say, "How's your how's your
[22:20] incarnation going these days?"
[22:25] And they might say, "Well, it's probably
[22:29] going to spread
[22:31] from my liver to my
[22:39] we were we were talking
[22:42] as souls. We were not experiencing
[22:45] anxiety.
[22:47] We were talking about the weather,
[22:52] the weather of our bodies.
[22:54] And we were two souls
[22:58] who came from
[23:01] God.
[23:07] When two souls meet, it's like
[23:12] heart-to-heart
[23:14] resuscitation.
[23:16] It was what my guru showed me.
[23:20] He mirrored
[23:23] my soul.
[23:26] He mirrored me as a spiritual being.
[23:32] These three eyes,
[23:35] all of us have them. But what you do is
[23:38] you identify with one of the three.
[23:44] and identifying with them, you change
[23:48] your perception.
[23:53] Like if I put my identify with my soul,
[23:58] we are a group of souls
[24:02] trying to figure out what we're doing
[24:05] here.
[24:09] There's a spiritual master who's who was
[24:13] a great great master named Romano
[24:16] Maharshi
[24:18] and he said lectures are for
[24:21] entertainment
[24:22] silence is for deepening. [sighs]
[24:26] So my lectures for the past few weeks
[24:33] have been
[24:35] silence
[24:37] until
[24:39] one of us has a question.
[24:42] We will silence
[24:46] and then somebody will have a question.
[24:50] Now don't waste the silence
[24:53] waiting.
[24:56] The question can be about anything.
[25:01] It can be the world.
[25:06] It can be anything about you or me.
[25:11] So [clears throat]
[25:14] after you surf the silence,
[25:18] let it go into you
[25:21] until you identify with number three.
[25:27] The silence.
[25:30] The silent space in you.
[25:35] This peaceful
[25:37] space in you.
[25:41] peaceful space in you.
[25:45] But anytime you have a question,
[25:48] just raise your hand.
[25:51] I I would like you to help me understand
[25:55] where were all the souls before humanity
[25:59] was created. Where will all the souls be
[26:02] after humanity ceases to exist? And in
[26:07] our arrogance, how do we help me
[26:09] understand how we relate to who we are,
[26:12] what we are, and where our souls are in
[26:15] a infinite concept of the universe which
[26:19] is beyond our comprehension.
[26:23] There are many many more souls than
[26:26] people. And
[26:30] the souls look around for incarnations
[26:34] and some of them find
[26:37] in here and some of them find in other
[26:42] planes.
[26:44] We tend to think this is a a plane of uh
[26:49] highly valued.
[26:52] This is like the third grade.
[26:55] [laughter]
[26:58] I want to go back to the first third
[27:01] grade. I want the teacher there. Please,
[27:04] please
[27:06] don't me won't make me go into the
[27:08] fourth grade.
[27:11] You know what is happening is happening.
[27:16] I don't secondguess God the creator.
[27:22] is not a separate being, but it's it's
[27:25] all of this.
[27:27] See, if I said that's a terrible thing
[27:31] in lower Manhattan,
[27:34] terrible. I wouldn't have done it that
[27:37] way if I was God.
[27:44] And I I'm
[27:47] tired all of criticizing God.
[27:53] So therefore,
[27:55] I make things as nice as my my for other
[28:02] people and myself as my limited
[28:05] compassion allows.
[28:08] And then I don't question. I live this
[28:13] moment. [sighs]
[28:15] This moment it's like baklava. You know
[28:18] there is honey and there's nuts
[28:24] [laughter]
[28:28] [snorts]
[28:31] but like that that's all this moment.
[28:36] Now sir now what was your question?
[28:50] What?
[28:51] >> I think you've given me the answer.
[28:54] >> Thank you. [laughter]
[28:58] He He's a shell.
[29:02] [laughter]
[29:12] Yes.
[29:14] >> Okay. Ramdas.
[29:16] >> Yes.
[29:16] >> Um I noticed you said during your talk
[29:19] that um the souls keep coming back
[29:24] until it learns all it can learn about
[29:26] love. And I said ah. Then you waited a
[29:31] pause and you go and suffering. And I
[29:33] said, "Ah, I what I wanted to know was
[29:38] how much does love and suffering
[29:40] overlap? How much are they one and the
[29:42] same? And how much are they polar
[29:44] opposites?
[29:47] And if it they are polar opposites, do
[29:49] we have to really learn that much about
[29:51] suffering? Can we go more love side?
[29:55] >> I can't hear this. This is
[30:03] love and suffering
[30:05] the same.
[30:06] >> Yeah.
[30:07] >> Can we avoid the suffering of just love?
[30:10] [laughter]
[30:11] >> Okay. Thank you. Um
[30:19] my guru made a statement once.
[30:23] There was a young girl at the darian
[30:27] a young Indian girl
[30:30] and she said
[30:32] Maharaji I've had so much suffering in
[30:35] my life and Maharaji said
[30:40] you know he said
[30:42] suffering
[30:44] gets me clo so so close to God
[30:49] suffering gets me so close to God that's
[30:53] One of the lessons you have to learn,
[30:59] I don't see any suffering in love.
[31:05] I don't see any.
[31:09] And I missed something.
[31:13] I just can't see it.
[31:17] Love cementss things. relationships.
[31:23] Love brings you so close to God.
[31:30] So do you now feel
[31:33] that the these are only same?
[31:37] Yeah. You feel love and
[31:41] >> um I would have to say from what you
[31:43] said that I feel that they're one and
[31:45] the same and they're also mutually
[31:47] exclusive.
[31:49] >> Um
[31:50] You need both. That the suffering
[31:54] maybe is just an illusion for love that
[31:57] behind it there is love on a soul level.
[32:00] >> It is. That's true. Yes. Yes.
[32:04] >> Nice. Yes.
[32:07] Yes.
[32:10] The the ego suffers.
[32:14] The
[32:15] the soul does nothing for love but love
[32:21] but love.
[32:23] It loves other souls but that takes to
[32:28] the beloved.
[32:33] The love that we have for one another is
[32:37] a royal road to loving the beloved.
[32:43] You read all this, but let me say you um
[32:47] [clears throat]
[32:48] I came in a car to him and the night
[32:52] before
[32:54] I was 100 kilometers away and I needed
[32:58] to go to the bathroom and I went outside
[33:02] and the stars were like Van Go and I
[33:07] stopped
[33:09] and I thought of my mother who had died
[33:14] just a month earlier.
[33:17] I just felt her presence and then I went
[33:22] to the bathroom. Of course, I'm a
[33:25] Freudian. So, the fact that I'm the
[33:30] [laughter]
[33:41] Well,
[33:43] um, and the next day we went the
[33:47] kilometers up to the mountains and we
[33:49] stopped at this temple. The fellow I was
[33:52] with stopped. He wanted to see his guru
[33:56] to get his visa extended.
[33:59] And I sat in the car. I didn't want to I
[34:04] didn't want it to Hindu gurus.
[34:08] I didn't Hinduism
[34:11] daylow paint and and fluorescent lights
[34:16] and oh jeez,
[34:20] I was nice clean Buddhist.
[34:26] And
[34:29] so the Indians around the car said to
[34:33] me, "Go see him." So I got out of the
[34:37] car and I went up the hill, this rocky
[34:40] hill, and I stood apart from the scene.
[34:44] And this fat old gentleman
[34:49] with a few people around him
[34:52] and this fellow I had come with he's in
[34:57] Dunda Prrenam. He's on his belly
[35:00] touching this man's feet.
[35:03] [clears throat]
[35:04] So I
[35:06] didn't look the light look. I didn't
[35:09] want to touch his feet. That mean this?
[35:13] No. No. Why? I'm My hands were in the
[35:17] pockets and
[35:23] um uh they gave us food and then he
[35:27] said, "Will you buy one of those cars
[35:30] you couple and give it to me?" This was
[35:34] a car I had borrowed from another
[35:38] friend. First he will you give me that
[35:41] car and this fellow who was with
[35:45] Maharaji you can if you want it you can
[35:48] have it
[35:53] you know [clears throat]
[35:56] and I got very agitated
[36:02] so he said what's the matter I said well
[36:08] you can't Give the get that car. It's
[36:11] not.
[36:15] So this fat man says,
[36:19] "You buy me for me one like that."
[36:24] I have a a family that Jewish
[36:27] fundraisers.
[36:29] And I have never seen
[36:32] I've never seen a go anything like this.
[36:35] I mean, he's just
[36:38] this this
[36:41] guy uh asking to
[36:44] a Land Rover
[36:49] and I was getting more um uptight.
[36:54] And um
[36:58] and then he said, "Come, come sit."
[37:03] And then he said, "You were out on the
[37:07] under the stars last night
[37:10] thinking about your mother."
[37:15] Now,
[37:16] I was a western psychologist.
[37:21] We can't do that.
[37:31] And I was desperately thinking,
[37:35] how does he do it? I mean, he he's a
[37:39] maybe he's a he's got my file
[37:42] underground or something like that.
[37:47] And I was my mind was going, "Oh,
[37:52] because
[37:54] wow, if that if he knows that."
[37:59] Ooh.
[38:02] [laughter]
[38:06] And I couldn't look at him
[38:09] because of all the stuff he knew about
[38:12] me.
[38:15] And then
[38:18] I looked and he was looking at me with
[38:23] unconditional love.
[38:26] He just looked at me with love.
[38:30] Up to that moment,
[38:33] I had always thought
[38:37] that if somebody really knew me, they
[38:41] would never love me.
[38:44] and he knew me [sighs]
[38:47] and he loved me.
[38:51] I didn't even know him.
[38:55] And that that was the love that drew me
[39:00] in.
[39:02] Drew me in
[39:04] the unconditional love.
[39:09] And now as a soul, I look at each person
[39:14] as a soul,
[39:16] as a lovable being with their
[39:20] incarnations here and there. Before I
[39:24] met him, I was
[39:28] identified with my ego.
[39:39] I sit [clears throat]
[39:41] in my home and I look out a big window
[39:47] and the the San Francisco, the bay,
[39:52] the mountains, the trees, the birds,
[39:59] and I go up the mountains and I blend
[40:03] with the sky.
[40:07] And I thinking [clears throat] about
[40:09] this
[40:10] um I'm an old
[40:14] I'm an old fart
[40:17] sitting by a window
[40:19] looking out a window. That's what
[40:23] somebody would say.
[40:26] I'm 70. That's what old
[40:29] I suppose.
[40:32] But what I'm doing
[40:35] is blending those three things
[40:39] identifying
[40:40] with that quiet peaceful
[40:45] totality.
[40:48] So now I've got the conundrum
[40:52] doing that
[40:56] or doing this.
[41:00] This is what I do before the stroke.
[41:04] But now I could just sit out the sit
[41:09] sit look out the window.
[41:14] And I I thought those two
[41:18] actions,
[41:20] what would be compassion compassionate?
[41:25] Which one for this culture?
[41:30] I brings silence
[41:33] to the culture by my silence
[41:39] or
[41:41] I bring words.
[41:48] Excuse me. On all these levels that you
[41:50] talk to us about, do you think that
[41:52] there's a
[41:55] um a universal healing like on the level
[41:58] of a stroke that one day there may be
[42:01] some kind of cure for it and on the
[42:03] level of the bombing of the
[42:07] September 11th that there will be some
[42:09] kind of healing that will take place.
[42:14] I I find the term healing like people
[42:18] said why don't you heal and I feel
[42:22] healing is becoming one with the beloved
[42:26] curing is something else
[42:30] September 11th this culture will never
[42:35] be the same never. So it won't be cured
[42:40] but it will be healed.
[42:44] Um, Ramdas, thank you so much for coming
[42:46] here. We really appreciate it. Um, you
[42:49] had asked before that when people were
[42:51] calling you and many people also called
[42:53] me about September 11th and asked, you
[42:56] know, what I felt about it and I thought
[42:59] maybe if I shared with you what I, you
[43:02] know, came to in my own
[43:06] level three or whatever you call it, you
[43:07] might share a little bit of yours. For
[43:09] me, what I I went down there recently
[43:12] just to see it because I've just been in
[43:15] my head seeing newspapers or TV and I
[43:17] wanted to feel it and not deny what
[43:19] actually happened and pretend that
[43:21] everything's the same. And what I came
[43:23] to was like boiling water. that water
[43:26] when it boils
[43:28] all the impurities rise to the top and
[43:33] boil off and that um as much uh hatred
[43:38] and anger as I have in myself or others
[43:41] have collectively this is boiling up and
[43:45] I've seen in the streets of Manhattan an
[43:47] outpouring of light um last the two
[43:50] Friday nights ago right at the time of
[43:51] the Sabbath everyone in the city was out
[43:54] in the streets with candles and being in
[43:56] silence and uh
[44:00] it was very very moving for me and I
[44:02] just felt like this is this hatred and
[44:05] anger within each of us is being shown
[44:07] to us
[44:09] and it's it's not bad or wrong that we
[44:11] we get we have to see it now and I was
[44:14] just wondering in your own level three
[44:17] you know you said your ego your soul and
[44:20] the nameless third level what you've
[44:22] come to for yourself in terms of what
[44:25] happened to us September 11th, how we
[44:27] can integrate it into our culture.
[44:32] >> I see it as I've told you, I've seen
[44:36] September 11th as
[44:39] as fierce grace
[44:42] and it is graceful.
[44:46] What did Ramdas say? He said the
[44:51] boy that's going to that's going to sell
[44:54] in New York. [laughter]
[45:04] I
[45:06] I have anger towards the people that did
[45:10] the these things because they took
[45:15] they took life. They took happiness.
[45:19] They took they to they took
[45:23] our naivveness.
[45:27] But that's the mind.
[45:31] The heart feels it feels compassion for
[45:36] the people who lost somebody.
[45:41] I'm compassionate for the way they are
[45:44] seeing it. It's too bad
[45:48] because you can lose somebody that you
[45:52] loved and love is soul thing.
[45:57] So they're not lost. All you're doing is
[46:02] change it form.
[46:05] If I could tell them that I would.
[46:11] I've spent so much time in India where
[46:15] they live as souls. They are [snorts]
[46:18] thinking of themselves as souls and they
[46:21] are thinking
[46:24] of reincarnation
[46:27] and that's the way I live.
[46:37] Um, earlier when you had first talked
[46:39] about September 11th, you said if you
[46:41] were God, you would have done things
[46:43] differently.
[46:44] Um, I I get I unlike most of the people
[46:48] here, I've never really heard of you
[46:49] before and I haven't read any of your
[46:51] books. Um, I've heard your name, but I
[46:53] didn't know who you were or what you
[46:54] were going to talk about. But do you
[46:55] really believe God was responsible for
[46:57] what happens when something bad happens?
[46:59] Like I died of a heart attack last year
[47:02] and they brought me back. You had a
[47:03] stroke. But I don't blame God. Did you
[47:05] say you blamed God?
[47:07] >> Yeah.
[47:08] >> Wow.
[47:09] >> Yeah.
[47:11] There's one at the top and there's two.
[47:18] There's two is good and evil down there.
[47:23] That's another plane of consciousness.
[47:26] I don't want to put God is good and
[47:30] leave him out of bad
[47:33] him
[47:35] us it. The one the one includes the bad.
[47:43] The one includes the bad.
[47:46] My one is one.
[47:50] It includes all of it.
[47:54] And this is all of it.
[47:59] >> Hi, good evening. Um, as everybody is
[48:01] talking about September 11, I wanted to
[48:04] share my own personal feelings. Like the
[48:07] lady who just spoke, I've never heard of
[48:09] you until my husband told me a few days
[48:12] about you to be and the one thing he
[48:15] knew about you was to be here now.
[48:18] >> Right. That's the only thing he knew.
[48:20] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[48:22] So I said, "Okay, now if someone could
[48:25] be that enlightened, I would like to
[48:27] meet that man." So he brought me along.
[48:31] I've always of my own consciousness of
[48:34] what my God is all about because I feel
[48:38] that if someone was responsible for my
[48:41] being, I had to have my own personal
[48:44] relationship with him.
[48:45] >> And I've developed one over the years.
[48:49] Sometimes in my own self I it doesn't
[48:52] always go with the norm. So I keep it to
[48:54] myself because it's like a secret. I
[48:57] know a secret what I know.
[48:59] >> Secret. Yes.
[49:01] >> So with anything
[49:04] with anything I you know I always look
[49:07] at myself as a child and he's my father.
[49:10] >> Child. Yes. So in myself, I ran to him
[49:14] when this thing happened and I said,
[49:18] "What? How? What happened here?"
[49:22] And then he didn't answer me right away
[49:24] cuz he's wise, you know, and he knew
[49:26] that he had to take his time to give me
[49:28] such an answer that I could understand
[49:30] it. So days later, I pondered it and I
[49:34] says, "What? Give me I need an answer
[49:36] now." But he wanted me to wait because
[49:40] it had to be an an answer that I could
[49:42] understand. So when the answer came to
[49:45] me, he says, "Molly," cuz he likes to
[49:48] call me Molly. He says, "Look,
[49:53] 6,000 people died that day."
[49:58] And I don't know really the number of
[50:00] people that live in America. Maybe
[50:02] somebody else here know. And look at the
[50:06] whole entire United States. Not only
[50:09] United States but the world that have
[50:12] come together in that moment
[50:17] of two plane crashing one, you know, in
[50:20] the World Trade Center. It affected the
[50:24] whole entire world and brought us to a
[50:28] place that we had to go to him for all
[50:32] the answers that we needed. Now when I
[50:35] walk down the street, I see love that
[50:38] you just spoke about in the eyes of
[50:41] everyone. I feel love towards because
[50:45] I'm afraid that I may not have the
[50:47] moment to express it. So out of it come
[50:49] this bonding this love that we had
[50:53] forgotten. This place that we have
[50:56] forgotten. The moment that we have
[50:58] forgotten that to be here now love one
[51:01] another. Share with one another. Give to
[51:04] one another. And you know what?
[51:06] Everything else is secondary. I am so
[51:09] sorry that it happened but the gift that
[51:12] we have gotten out of it. Hallelujah to
[51:15] that.
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